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1382d
You don't have to agree with #AlexJones to support his right to say it.
The purge makes me even more eager for the world to use censorship resistant platforms like this one.
replied 1382d
The ability to not agree with someone and still support their rights to say it seems to have become more rare over the recent years, hopefully it will make a comeback.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 1382d
Not sure why I'm optimistic but I tend to think the voices calling for censorship are very loud and in the vast minority.
replied 1382d
My concern mostly comes from talking with regular people, the more they come in contact with differing views the more they want to control and restrict them. Few support free speech.
replied 1381d
I think you are right. In my country we brag about democracy and free speech. Reality is that we have no free speech and everyone knows that deep inside.
replied 1381d
Pretty silly what happened to Lars Hedegaard, both the attempted assassination and the state prosecution.
replied 1381d
Something about critic of Islam. It's creepy how 'bad' it is when we are critics of this topic.
replied 1381d
I think I have to look into this guy. Not sure what the story is about.
replied 1381d
-the assassination attempt would be very bad if it was done to stop his freedom of expression, something they themselves punished him for a couple years earlier, hypocritical.
replied 1381d
He criticized stuff related to Islam, someone (Maybe ISIS) tried to assassinate him. The state prosecuted him for hate speech, the silly thing was that Denmark remarked that the crime-
replied 1382d
Most regular people I talk to want to put in legal restrictions on what they see as harmful or immoral speech, racism, sexism, anti-homosexual, even fictional works that think wrong.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 1382d
You live in California?
replied 1382d
A progressive place (or regressive if you like), but I think it is a general uptick in the sentiment since social media came along.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 1382d
Since big box social media started gaming feeds to look like there's extremists everywhere, yeah. Fear tactics.
replied 1382d
It works, we are sort of hardwired towards making decisions to survive in the jungle.
replied 1381d
We need to resist our desire for 'moderation' and make it completely impossible to do at all.
replied 1381d
This platform is built around the principle of no moderation, if someone wants to be in a moderated environment they should be able to, but it is always nice to have the option not to.
replied 1381d
Agree! but no "because we need to protect you". I think we are the best at protecting ourselves from what we shouldn't see.
replied 1381d
It is very rare to see communities without moderation, if memo.cash works out it will be a great example of it, the small cost per message and barrier of entry works as filters.
replied 1381d
yes this platform is. I hope we get more non-pro-BCH people on here.
replied 1381d
I think the best we can hope for is troll posters from BTC, but they are nowhere to be found, which is a shame, because it is always fun to see banter and disagreements in good spirit.
replied 1381d
Haha you mean without censorship?
replied 1381d
There is no thing in the middle. Either we moderate or not. Moderation results in dictatorship - it has until now. It has failed every time, we tried it.
replied 1381d
Part of the problem is the barriers to entry and the size of a community, etiquette and norms (self governance) goes out the window once the size of any community becomes large enough.
replied 1382d
Supporting his right to say it, doesn't mean you have to host it.
replied 1381d
🤔 interesting point. The market should penalise them. No use running to the government.
replied 1381d
what I told someone else irl. If you use gov bc you have gov power now it will be turned around later. That & market solutions (like moving to memo) are genuine & difficult to revert.
replied 1382d
"In the Middle Ages they would have burned me. Now they are content with burning my books." Sigmund Freud. A sort of progress.
OnWindowly
replied 1370d
I agree 10000000%
Sk8eM dUb
replied 1382d
This is your cue to start telling whistleblowers and dissenting voices to get some Bitcoin and start writing books that can't be burnt right here on memo.cash!
replied 1381d
true bring them here! (aside, the only complaint I see on r/btc for memo is how it looks. can't people just get over that to use cool new tech?!)
slb
replied 1382d
We need memo + IPFS as soon as possible. And follow the example of @Tom and publish as many books/article on the BCH blockchain to make them practically unburnable
replied 1382d
Memo will be adding support for long-form content hopefully in the near future :)
replied 1382d
fully onchain or hybrid on/off?
replied 1382d
Fully onchain
replied 1382d
I certainly respect your right to use the permissionless blockchain but it seems like a competitor with a more efficient storage system might make you regret this decision one day :)
replied 1381d
How would people access that storage system w/out getting censored?
replied 1381d
IPFS? It is in the early stages of running a node in the browser.
replied 1381d
IPFS is cool tech, but I feel less confident it will be here in 10 years than I do about BCH. It's a decent solution for non-text media, though still depends on someone hosting it.
replied 1381d
Exactly. This is an excellent use case. Just as important as money. Think about it, blockchain is giving is oor rights back. First sound money, now freedom of speech.
replied 1381d
BitTorrent exists for more than a decade, and there is no doubt it will for another. WebTorrent is the next step. Don’t be confused with overhyped IPFS.
replied 1381d
how come the rate of orhapaned no longer seeded torrent files is skyrocketing then?
replied 1379d
I have a solution: users who "like" a media content commit to store it locally and seed while online. The more likes any particular webtorrent post has, the longer it lives.
replied 1379d
As users engage more they can commit to not only store the content they like, but that of those whom they follow, and so on, by specifying the social depth (limit is an archival node)
replied 1381d
IPFS is better IMO because it makes sure there is no duplication and then it has a HTTP interface.
replied 1378d
also, you can can be a webtorrent peer from your browser right away, while ipfs-js is undercooked. I cannot stop thinking about ipfs as overhyped undercooked copycat of bittorent.
replied 1378d
what duplication? one hash -> one file anyway. also, ipfs is going to be integrated with filecoin, which I do not think is valuable in case of memo protocol.
replied 1378d
I guess you don't need to use Filecoin. Am I wrong?
replied 1378d
Right now filecoin is not ready, but afaik integration of filecoin with ipfs is the ultimate goal.
replied 1381d
Crypto torrent.
replied 1381d
That is true but it does not store files forever, only the files that are pinned will remain over time, the files stored on blockchain would be small but immutable and permanent.
replied 1381d
The Blockchain is a poor means of storage. Is there a desire to store a file forever on the blockchain? With OP_Return you have a timestamp of the file so as to prove that it existed.
replied 1381d
Under that argument, memo probably shouldn't be on the blockchain either.

slb
replied 1381d
To take the data down you have to take the entire currency down. This is extremely powerful.
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1379d
Words can be more powerful than even large sums of money. Worth of Martin Luther King Jr's speech? Worth of whistleblowers' data? Worth of censorship exposure?
replied 1381d
I view Memo as a nice proof-of-concept, but long form / high volume storage will be better served by other blockchains or solutions long term, and then this tech will fade out. My 2c.
replied 1381d
Perhaps multiple blockchains is the way things will go, but to me a single chain seems more likely.
replied 1381d
Would be very cool if we could have one chain for all. Though I think it's very unlikely/impossible,
Simon Van Gelder
replied 1381d
Judging from similar structures in nature, we're looking at pairs of coins.
slb
replied 1381d
I actually tried the "multiple blockchains" strategy with data in mind. It introduces more attack vectors than just IPFS. It might work in some cases tho.
replied 1381d
did you write up your findings anywhere? interested to learn more about how data could be stored on/with blockchain.
Barricade
replied 1381d
Maybe we need a way to incentive archival nodes. If eventually there's a lot of data, we could develop something like swarm nodes: parts of the blockchain stored in multiple nodes.
replied 1381d
it isn't a question of "right and wrong" it's a question of planning now so that in five years you're still relevant
replied 1381d
not all data must be stored on one single blockchain. "just because you can, doesn't mean you should." Why not long form hi def video content? because it'll get priced out one day.
replied 1381d
I think there's a good chance it's the other way around. Right now it's not cost effective to store hi def video on-chain, but eventually it might be.
replied 1381d
however it also appears to me that a competitor with a more efficient storage mechanism will also make you regret this decision one day, too :)
replied 1381d
I respect your right to use the permissionless peer-to-peer electronic cash blockchain as a means to store short messages as well
replied 1381d
Memo on blockchain provides good foundation. Social networking is incomplete without rich media, and it’s clearly impossible to support it onchain.
replied 1381d
Why memo (the protocol) is important is not due to storage but due to uncensorable communication and identity ownership. All OP_RETURN data can be pruned.
replied 1381d
It's uncensorable because it is stored on the blockchain. If IPFS suffices for storage then why would you need to use the blockchain at all?
replied 1381d
Because there isn't ownership in IPFS. The blockchain allows identity ownership. Also, all transactions are viewed the same as long as you pay, so communications (txs) aren't censored
replied 1381d
I would love to have a service to upload small files (other than images/video) and send direct download links, but I realize that I am one of very few people that would do that.
replied 1381d
We are sort of storing our comments (data) on the block chain forever now, so we are sort of making the case for storing stuff on the chain, see no reason we could not send small files
replied 1381d
This can all be pruned (and will be by most nodes except for archival ones)
Simon Van Gelder
replied 1381d
Just about there with un-prunable data storage on chain.
replied 1381d
That is the opposite of what you want
Simon Van Gelder
replied 1381d
I think you may miss-assume my implementation. It is exactly what I (and others) want.
replied 1381d
Doing so puts strain on other nodes (interfering with the cash aspect of BCH). You would force nodes to store arbitrary data forever with no remuneration.
Simon Van Gelder
replied 1381d
Persistent does not mean irrevocable. I have taken care to ensure that the mining incentives are not effected.
Simon Van Gelder
replied 1381d
Involves no changes to the protocol.
replied 1381d
So confused...would like to know more
Simon Van Gelder
replied 1381d
Scope keeps shifting upstream...tokens >> storage >> unprunable storage. Token proof of concept done ~ a week ago, data storage proof coming soon with generic whitepaper.
replied 1381d
File hashes works great to create proof of existence/notarization, example https://notary.bitcoin.com/ but most of the stuff done on the chain is because of censorship resistance.
replied 1381d
There are people that want to store small files on the block chain, but mostly to make absolutely sure that the file stays up forever, but yeah it is a fringe sort of use case.
replied 1381d
WebTorrent works in a browser right away.
Justicemate
replied 1381d
Storage is a function of the fees. Long posts will pay more.
I completely support this initiative by memo.
100%
slb
replied 1381d
There is no better censorship resistant mechanism than this. To censor the data you literally have to kill the monetary system.The bigger BCH gets,the more censorship resistant becomes
replied 1382d
how much long-form? up to 500 characters or something like that or infinitely long?
replied 1382d
Infinitely long.
replied 1382d
That should be enough:)
replied 1381d
Well there is a limit based on the amount of energy in the universe.
replied 1382d
longer posts - lower dynamic in new posts feed (at least as feeling)
replied 1382d
i have one concern about new posts feed: now its pretty informative, but since posts will be longer, I will have to scroll much more to read different new posts.
replied 1382d
or headers/titles for each posts should be added...
replied 1382d
It will be separate from posts. So if it was in your feed it could just show a short blurb.
replied 1381d
I think just having the UI combine self-replies into a single post would be great. It has costs, so it's self limiting & shouldn't be abused. Kinda how SMS works.
replied 1381d
The UI for writing posts could show you've jumped into another memo so you could try to slim it down if you want. That & simple compression & simple markdown would make it KILLER!
replied 1381d
Yep, that is a good option.
replied 1381d
Infinitely LONG? GEEZ. That's like... You can store entire encyclopedias on the blockchain...
replied 1381d
If you have the coin, each 1GB costs about 10 BCH at current prices. But articles, long form comments and even short plaintext books are still cheap.
replied 1381d
When is this coming?
replied 1382d
What about a way to compress text like https://github.com/antirez/smaz?
replied 1382d
Definitely will look into compression in long-term. Lots of other priorities short-term though. :)
replied 1382d
Great news, is the long form content also in the form of storing files like .jpg? that would be very cool.
replied 1382d
No, just text for now. Formatting support though hopefully. IPFS support is possible but lots of stuff to work on first.
slb
replied 1381d
1$+ per picture is quite expensive for image storage. It will probably be used mostly for blackmailing and CP
replied 1381d
The inevitable CP could cause legal issues for any central memo.cash website. Need decentralized client that anyone can run at home from scratch BEFORE jpegs easily stored on-chain.
replied 1381d
There's a grim problem in our future: CP and other vile images that are even harder to expunge from the blockchain than they are to unsee once they're burned into your eye sockets.
replied 1381d
Here is an example of a smaller image, it is about 527 bytes does not cost more than a couple comments,
replied 1381d
It is already possible to encode any file to the block chain(BC) cryptograffiti let people encode images, and it was never used for those purposes. Few places worse than BC to do that.
replied 1381d
as I know cryptograffiti limits image size up to 50 kb 🤷‍♂️
replied 1381d
Since it transfers to Dust addresses it takes about 4 bytes to encode 1 byte of data, and the dust is locked away forever, so it is a bit wasteful compared to memo and other OP_Return.
replied 1381d
Yes, because it encodes into one transaction with a lot of output dust addresses and it do not use OP_RETURN, it is possible to split files into multiple 50kb chunks.
replied 1381d
ok i see, but what the reason to put images to blockchain? its fun for sure but what the purpose?
replied 1381d
It is a bit like engraving it into stone, it will be there forever basically, personally I would like to encode small images couple kb, 3k example.
replied 1381d
With infinitely long messages it is possible to just paste the raw text of the file anyways, there would need to be some sort of decoder anyways built into a service like memo.cash.
replied 1381d
like bbcode lol
replied 1381d
That is what the dark web is for, makes no sense to blackmail someone on the block chain as it is publicly visible and it would already be out there forever.
slb
replied 1381d
Encrypting image, putting it on the blockchain and sharing the key with the victim looks like a good blackmail mechanism to me.
replied 1381d
Anything that is not possible to censor or redact has that feature, even our comments now, everyone can put out threats, blackmail if they want to in plain text.
replied 1381d
It would be easier to just put the SHA256 hash of the file as proof of existence, it is already possible to write any data to the BlockChain or any other storage system online.
replied 1382d
I assume that it is longer comments, but that alone is of course very nice.
replied 1382d
Actually working on something separate from comments - a fairly new use case. Think on-chain geocities / github pages. Which would include support for editing.
slb
replied 1381d
Completely off-topic - I am quite excited and interested in memo. How can I make more serious contribution?
replied 1381d
Glad to hear it! Memo is open source if you want to contribute directly - https://github.com/memocash/memo

There're contact methods on the about page if you'd like to chat more. :)
replied 1381d
are you good in python?
slb
replied 1381d
What do you guys use python for? I read the github repo for quite some time and all I see is Go
replied 1381d
memo.cash is written on go. its was personal question )