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1969d · Ed
Roger has officially stopped supporting Bitcoin system, he now supports Jihan's Wormhole Cash. Fuck both of them.
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1968d
U know that u can "wormhole" any open blockchain, BTC and BSV included, right?
replied 1968d
If you want to say anyone can destroy their bitcoins by sending them to some unknown address the way Wormhole does, yes, but as CSW said, no longer used addresses will be mined again.
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1967d
Who decides what's "no longer used"? It's reintroduction of trust and antithesis to Bitcoin. If such changes will appear on BSV chain, its tokens'll likely lose a lot of value
replied 1967d
If you move your money it's used. If you don't touch it for 100 years the hash function will be cracked and the "sunken" money can be reused. If you ask me: another ingenious feature.
replied 1966d
& if it isnt touched in 10 years? 5 years? 1 year? 6 months? when was the last time you 'touched' your retirement account? & cracked hash function is a different issue.
replied 1966d
It cant be recovered if the hash function isn't cracked as far as I understood. Cracking the function takes time. Therefore moving your money before 100 years or so will make it used.
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If his only point is that crypto will be cracked in the future, then yeah of course that will happen so why make it a point of contention now?
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AFAIK the issue is that CSW wants to move 'lost funds' out of wallets (cant find where he defined lost) or out of wallets on BSV that use DSV on BCH
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1966d
Hacking signing hash function is fine with me, I don't see manipulations with ledger that avoid signing anything on the protocol level, which was the idea on SV side, as valuable
replied 1967d
You can make it so that addresses that haven't been used for 50 years or so, or more to be such... means its money sitting there for that long doing nothing, its either lost or hoarded
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1966d
I decide what to do with my money and when. Bitcoin makes erasing my money from the ledger almost impossible. Changing that on some chains of Bitcoin will just make them less valuable
replied 1966d
What if you die or lose wallet access? There are legit uses for this re-mining of such addresses. Just don't leave them forever like that, move them every few years & you're fine.
Fnuller15
replied 1966d
How do you determine if someone has died or that the wallet is just on long-term cold storage?
I cannot grasp why and how the SV camp can justify stealing funds.
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1965d
Bitcoin doesn't cure statism, but enables choice for libertarians
replied 1966d
I see it like this: if you die, you lost funds, if you lose wallet access, you lost funds. If you are hoarding that money (esp if its massive amount), it means you have too much of it.
replied 1965d
wtf ,
So if you have money in a bank that you worked hard to save even any amount and you die or forget password...its ok for the bank to claim all your money?
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1965d
In my opinion u've too much money. What's next? Shall I rob u?
replied 1964d
I don't think you know what having too much money means
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1964d
Doesn't matter if I'm the commissar to decide. Compassionate socialists were first to be robbed, raped and killed during Russian revolution. Read more books
replied 1963d
Compassionate socialists first to be robbed & killed? What books are you reading? Did you know that Communist revolution was hijacked and that Communism never happened in Soviet Union?
replied 1963d
It wasn't hijacked. That is the reality of communism. It tells you it is all about being equal, but then the boot comes down on your throat. Communism has been tried many times.
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1962d
Do u believe that u personally are able to bring the utopia other people failed to deliver over numerous attempts? If so, u deserve the first bullet
replied 1962d
What I am doing is called educating people who are brainwashed by system disguising itself as freedom and other shit you dumbffucks believe. Its promoting a BETTER SOCIETY you fuckhead
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1962d
Totally not a lunatic
replied 1962d
You can go eat some shit then when you are done with that go fuck yourself.
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1962d
It can't happen anywhere, cos homo sapiens aren't blank slates. Just the blankest of all animals. Sex and food, now accompanied by decent medicine and a lot of flashy stuff on screens
replied 1962d
If you want to say we should accept shit society because we are just animals then first thing we should do is abolish private property as no such thing exists in nature/animal world.
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1962d
We are one of the fittest among animals, we use tools in a supreme manner. Why give it up and start to get eaten by big cats and reptiles again? Shoot them with a rifle
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You are dumb
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1962d
And u're extremely smart
replied 1963d
Stalin was no Socialist or Communist, he was being aided by the west to prevent Communism taking place... they installed State Capitalism there back then & labeled it as Communism.
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Its same shit that happened with Bitcoin in BTC, it got hijacked and turned into something different while maintaining the same label. Books have propaganda and lies in them also.
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The USSR never had state capitalism. State capitalism is in nations like Norway, and South Korea.
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Nope, you have no clue what you are saying. Its all wrong.
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I speak the facts, you just declare absurdities. You seem to think your word is all that matters, but in reality people have to back up their claims. You never back up anything you say
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Those with “a lot” will make rules to protect theirs & force people like you to figuratively self-immolate in the name of equality and fairness like always.
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you will not be the one deciding what is "too much".
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I am not worried about that at all :-)
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"The deep state, which consists of top richest capitalists, are that un-elected government (hence the term deep state) they control the politics, & they are the ones directing it all."
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Ioverhe various definitions of what people mean by the "deep state" and all the absurdity that comes with it. Corruption exists, but not in this Hollywood type of form.
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just quoting ED as an example of him (i think correctly) thinking that those with money can buy political power to insulate themselves from market force.
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I realised after I wasn't responding to him. I get mixed up with long threads on mobile sometimes.
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cant believe you post on mobile! i can barely keep up on desktop.
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I try to almost never use my desktop.
replied 1961d
whatever works for you! 🤷‍♀️
anarchovegan
replied 1962d
How do you use mobile? I mainly used it when the memo app @blake made was working.
Now that it keeps crashing, I've mostly given up, although the captcha is easier than most others...
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I never use the app. I just use my Chrome browser. I am more use to it on my phone than on my desktop. That said there is little difference that I can see. Guess I am just use to it.
anarchovegan
replied 1961d
;index=9&list=PLR_ghQEN2SgBOLJaDomLoK95Ay_xV5aZV
anarchovegan
replied 1961d
Chrome? Have you tried Firefox? Brave? Are you on Android or iOS?
;list=PLR_ghQEN2SgBOLJaDomLoK95Ay_xV5aZV
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I use Andraoid. I have tried Brave for a bit, but didnt care for it. Chrome works best for me. I use to use the Chromebook while in university.
Sk8eM dUb
replied 1962d
Building your ivory tower higher only makes your fall more deadly.
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wat?
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Listen to yourself, who else can BUY OUT the politician if not those with most money? You really are completely clueless. Do you get paid to do this?
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cat got your tongue, ED?
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Na, just can't be fucked replying to every single stupid post
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However, as you’ve said, those with “too much” have always been able to twist rules to suit themselves.
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on this point I agree with you. I’m wondering why you think bitcoin is different. sounds like you want to impose redistribution on wallets with “too much”
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“What capitalists do however is bribe politicians in order to corrupt them, so that they defend capitalists interests.” - ED
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"And it is exactly these kinds of people who have used this system, and previous ones, all of which are exploitative also, to enrich themselves, then use that wealth to fuck us over."
replied 1963d
You have argued that all throughout history the rich (those with “too much”) have made rules to benefit themselves. How will this time be different?
Fnuller15
replied 1965d
So your kids should not be able to inherit It? Still, you can't explain how to determine if the funds are held by someone dead or whether the paper wallet has been transferred...
replied 1966d
All pro-capitalists say capitalism is about re-investing capital to help the society, so not doing this is Crony Capitalism to them as people who hoard massive wealth are evil ;-)
replied 1962d
Greedy capitalists reinvest their capital because if they dont then they lose value to inflation. This is why some see deflation as a bad thing. It reduces need to invest.
Fnuller15
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But your main man CSW is all about praising capitalism... Still you support his vision?
Salty
replied 1962d
Bitcoin SV is capitalist
replied 1962d
"SV" is capitalist. "sv" is lowercasist. "Sv" is a melting pot of cases.
bchbtch
replied 1962d
lol nice one :P
anarchovegan
replied 1962d
LOL
Salty
replied 1962d
bitcoin Sv is capitalist, DSV is shit , bucket shops scams must die ...
replied 1962d
Name checks out.
TrashPosterInTheDark
replied 1962d
Bitcoin SV is capitalist just as much it's a retarded centralized shitcoin.
slb
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Why it's not capitalist?
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Monopolist
replied 1965d
And little he knows, and everyone else, that Bitcoin system is not Capitalist.
replied 1966d
& they ARE evil, they are complete psychopaths. So "stealing" that massive wealth from them is justified in my eyes, completely, especially knowing they got that & from work of others
replied 1965d
are you talking about $bill Calvin? he made his money from others misery through his gambling sites.
replied 1965d
He is a Capitalist also, indeed, not as shitty as those who fund wars, corrupt politics, but still part of the group.
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bs v also want to make users keep on paying to store info onchain...satoshi designed it to be a one off payment faketoshi wants a reoccurring payment, again to fill his miners pockets
replied 1966d
Just hoarding wealth means its wealth not going back into economy, not helping anyone, not building anything good for society, and why we still have poverty & hunger. Fuck such people.
replied 1964d
printing money causes inflation, devaluing currency already in circulation. Hoarding/burning is the opposite, removing currency from circulation & inc value of currency in circulation
replied 1965d
Please stfu stealing users coins is not bringing anything back to the economy, its giving the funds to miners and in this case sv are majority miners and will get the coins.
replied 1966d
There are no such uses. This is lunacy, theft, and fraud. The very basis of Bitcoin is holding the private key and an immutable ledger.
replied 1966d
Don't bother. He is a commie. Theft of other peoples funds is second nature :-)
bchbtch
replied 1964d
The private keys CAN be brute forced, in the future it will be economical to do so in some cases. Who would you rather give an insecure private key to, a miner or a crook?
replied 1964d
Neither. If there is a compelling reason, everyone will move funds to newer secure addresses. https://allkeys.cash
bchbtch
replied 1964d
Even if they're dead? Keys can be mined with computing power, miners run data-centers, it makes sense that miners will claim old keys since anyone can do it.
replied 1964d
And I trust mathematics/physics. You are and will be unable to brute the private keys with current tech.
bchbtch
replied 1964d
No kidding. I'm not talking about current tech. How long will the 160 bits hold? not forever, and we'll have to upgrade. If someone doesn't upgrade what do you do?
replied 1964d
The 160 bit hash is just an extra layer to protect against a potential flaw in secp256k1. When you transact, you reveal the public key anyway (that's why we have change addresses).
bchbtch
replied 1964d
https://lbc.cryptoguru.org/

Is this method flawed?
replied 1964d
I'm not qualified to answer that, but it looks like a fun experiment.
replied 1964d
Yes, even if the private key is lost. It should be untouched. This is like asking Apple to put a backdoor into iOS “just for the good guys.”
bchbtch
replied 1964d
It doesn't matter what 'should' be done. There is money up for grabs, it's nuts to think people will just leave it there. Given that people WILL try to claim it, how should that go?
replied 1964d
Here is a tx ID for 50 BCH unprotected by Hash160. Good luck: b0e585927e1737d07bd8157a2ba9f7615ef8ecd2af6d03523e51b4d23e134b6a
bchbtch
replied 1964d
Wait, do you acknowledge that the cryptography in the protocol will eventually have to be updated?
replied 1964d
I never suggested otherwise. This is the part where you now try to continue justifying theft of funds "because someone will eventually steal it anyway." 🙄
bchbtch
replied 1964d
This is much better for the currency as a whole than to let them go to whoever or fall out of circulation forever.
bchbtch
replied 1964d
It's not theft if you allow the owners to come forward and claim them. In fact, the miners are the best people to run such a system. They have the integrity of the currency in mind.
replied 1964d
I'll pass on SV. Reclaiming funds by mining is theft and fraud. The end.
bchbtch
replied 1964d
So dramatic :P What do you mean reclaiming by mining? How does that work? The method I outlined does not use mining hardware.
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1965d
Death or incompetence don't grant whichever arbitrary collective a right to my money. Nothing does except my own choice. Mine your own coins or the whole ledger will perish market-wise
1DYD9Y8EomqBapvM
replied 1965d
"Re-mining"? Theft. And coins of chains with "re-mining" will be less of interest to me. Plain and simple. If it'll be BSV, then BSV will be less valuable to me than BCH
Hurensohn
replied 1968d
your holy csw does not like communists. maybe he will exploit you one day ;)
replied 1969d
What do you mean by the Bitcoin System? There are many Bitcoin Systems.
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No there isn't, there is only ONE Bitcoin system. The rest are shitcoins and altcoins. In that category are BTC and BCH/BAB. Bitcoin SV is the ONLY one using Bitcoin system.
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No There is only one Satoshi White Paper that clearly states the definition of BITCOIN as:A PEER TO PEER ELECTRONIC CASH SYSTEM. Both BCH and BSV are considered Bitcoin and some others
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BCH is no longer valid Bitcoin system.
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It most certainly is.
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It most certainly is not. BCH is Bitcoin as much as BTC is Bitcoin. Both are no longer Bitcoin.
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You can call it whatever you want but the "FACT" is it's a PEER TO PEER ELECTRONIC CASH SYSTEM. I could careless what you want to call it.
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While i agree that BCH is still P2P Cash System, it is no longer Bitcoin system. There is a difference. Litecoin is still P2P Cash system, but its not Bitcoin either.
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Litecoin is a bad comparison because it doesn't share the transaction history
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It is a good example to compare because the argument was BCH is Bitcoin because it works as P2P Digital Cash.... so that argument is invalid.
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No you are confusing Bitcoin with the Satoshi Whitepaper. The Satoshi Whitepaper is a theory on one Bitcoin System.
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Bitcoin is like an `iPhone XS`; `iPhone XS` is not `iPhone XR`, nor `iPhone X`, nor `Pixel 3`. when you fuck with its features it ceases being `iPhone XS`; same is true with Bitcoin
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But they are all called cell phones dork.
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...you are confusing `crypto` with `Bitcoin` - "The Satoshi Whitepaper is a theory on one Bitcoin System."
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Exactly.Again the Definition of Bitcoin is "A PEER TO PEER ELECTRONIC CASH SYSTEM".Their are a few coins that fit this definition. Maybe they should be called Iphones. But still crypto
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Dude, you are really talking garbage right now. You will sound smarter if you keep quiet.
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Talking Garbage? A White paper is a theory on how to do something. Look it up Moron. You will sound smarter if you leave.
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Yes, you are talking garbage. Bitcoin system is based on that white paper, its where the system rules are set and outlined. You change the rules, its no longer Bitcoin system.
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Bitcoin is a SYSTEM with specific rules and working principles. BCH no longer satisfies all those rules and working principles, same as BTC, LTC and all others, with exception of BSV.
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I don't have to use the manufacturers instructions to get the same result, and may even build it better.
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Mike, what is the best part of BCH/BAB?
Simon Van Gelder
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It is the evolutionary tip.
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It's cheap, fast, and reliable.
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What properties of BCH are the most valuable from a technical perspective.
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The technical side creates the use cases. It's only the use cases that will be valuable. And money is #1. Everything else is secondary.
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I see what you mean. Do you have any specific examples?
Hurensohn
replied 1969d
lel