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970d · Democracy
Not saying I agree with this, but is an interesting narrative
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replied 970d
With all of its disadvantage, democracy is the lesser evil. For example, now in my country we filling consultation ballot about allowing or vetoing further types sanctions on russia.
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Yea. I quite agree with Socrates that populist leaders and dumb voters are problematic, but like you I am not aware of a system that seems better. At least not short term.
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'Sail on, oh ship of state, Sail on, oh union strong and great'. Anyway, I think a ship is a misleading analogy for a modern country (maybe it works better for ancient city states).
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My point is that many sophist arguments seem very based if you accept their premise/analogy. You have to reject the premise to see the flaws.
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Indeed, or you can expand the analogy. If the ship could visit two islands, one which makes the captain rich, one which makes the crew rich, which would be visited most?
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Also, the selection process of who controls the ship is "solved" (captain), but who picks the captain? Who decides which people are experienced in seafaring and also not corrupt/evil?
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Another problem I have with this story is "That is definitely so" answer from Socrates' opposition. NOBODY I talk to ever says that. They weasel out of such traps easily even when dumb
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Now, that could happen once or twice, but with the Plato stories it happens over and over. I cannot imagine that this was how actual Socrates discussions usually happened.
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It works for small decisions, & only if you have a homogenous society. Stratified? Forget it. It's why the United States is a uniparty at the top while the serfs fight eachother.
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I have many problems with this thing, one being what better alternative is there? Like the quote says https://richardlangworth.com/worst-form-of-government . What's your solution?
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Create more state controls and county autonomy. That way, a heavily liberal city isn't deciding on the laws of rural, conservative areas. Also remove church from state.
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When I hear "state controls", I tend to think it will in practice be implemented by means of another govt institution with its own additional corruption. Maybe you had other plans :)
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There's no government

Like NO GOVERNMENT
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Doomed to fail. You only accept autonomy to an extent; our species, without fail, has a instinctual inclination to form hierarchies and be led.
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Choosing a leader != Accepting a monopoly on the use of force, to coerce your neighbors into adopting your personal values.
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"A multiethnic society is necessarily antidemocratic" ? Ah, Artistotle, yeah he's an original Statist. Also his opinions were necessarily ignorant of the following 2,000 years' history
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Just look at ethnically homogenous/isolationist/monoculture societies of the past 500 years vs diverse/cosmopolitan/inclusive ones. The former die out quickly; the latter are resilient
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Not true, importing a whole bunch of low-IQ savages from a different continent that have no sense of personal boundaries or the willingness to assimilate with their native culture suck
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You are the one making the positive assertion. Let's see the data.
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Good debate thus far. I'll have to see what I can come up with and will gladly kneel if my thoughts are unfounded.

To be continued.


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