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There you go repeating unfounded assertions again. You are a Animal Farm goat.
replied · 310d
How is that repeating? It wasn't an apology at all. I never made anything close to the claims you did in that analogy.
You repeated the unfounded assertion that my example did not fit what you had been saying. You just claim claim claim, you never back things up, instead you repeat.
replied · 310d
I've backed it up. You refuse to acknowledge it. You are just repeating yourself now though.
Now you repeat that you have backed it up. As already said, all you did was repeat the aforementioned red/blue jackets fallacy a few times with different words.
replied · 310d
I never made that fallacy at all. I never said anything even close to that fallacy. You just asserted an unrelated fallacy for no reason.
Let me spoon feed that to you. I draw a parallel between two things, A and B. You pick a characteristic c of A and claim B does have exactly c, therefore the parallel is flawed.
replied · 310d
You failed to draw a parallel, and then acted as if you didn't fail.
So again, you just repeat, while I am spoon feeding you the explanation of how you have not really shown anything. Maybe you don't understand logic?
replied · 310d
You are not explaining at all. I do understand logic well enough. Obviously the limited character terms makes complete explanations difficult though.
And "you are not explaining at all", that is totally unreasonable. I am explaining and you are ignoring the explanation and talking about other things.
"I do understand logic well enough", still, you just ignored what I said, and repeated yourself. If you understand the logic, answer what I said, don't just talk about something else.
replied · 310d
I didn't ignore what you said. In your example the characteristic c was what was being compared. So it doesn't help to compare A and B by dissimilar qualities.
In my example c was almost exactly the same as what was being compared, but the wording was slightly different. A parody of what you said, sure, but still valid
Stop lying. You just repeated yourself, instead of answering what I said.
replied · 310d
Your example of jackets talking about who you can learn from had zero to do with our conversation though.
Again, you keep repeating stuff without any explanation. Why do you do this? How could you possibly think this helps after all I have said about repetition before this?
You have not shown that c is critical for the parallel between A and B, and when I point this out, you instead repeat that B does not have c.
My example with the jackets would have made this clear to a thinking individual. I am starting to suspect you are not one.
replied · 310d
Did you fail logic class? I didn't. You compared things that are not easily comparably in the exact way you compared him. No I didn't explain why in these limited characters.
So now they are not "easily" comparable? Does that mean they are comparable? No, I didn't fail logic class, but you are failing to follow simple logic in another thread
replied · 310d
Whatever. This thole hinges has become hypothetical talk about words. I think that is because the actual point was too much.
Your sentences are becoming almost as hazy as your logic here. "The actual point" was never explained, as you now are starting to admit (you denied it before).
replied · 310d
Did you forget the original conversation this came from? It was about comparing control of a border with control of your house.

There are ways to compare those and ways that dont work
And no, I did not forget the original conversation. Did you just add that question there to make the repetition of an old assertion look good? Because repeat is all you did in the end
Did you forget that you argued like there are NO way to compare those? You said things like it showed I was not thinking. Again you repeat it don't work, without explaining.
replied · 309d
Homes dont have populations to sustain. Shrinking populations provide less tax revenue for an aging population. They also prevent projects due to insufficient population.
Projects may also be prevented because of infighting between immigrants and non immigrants.
replied · 309d
Maybe... interesting hypothetical. Usually having people who want to get paid to work helps the work happen though.
Therefore the first comment I had on all this stuff. We have no proof that they will want to get paid. If they get by on welfare, they may choose to stick with it
They may choose to steal instead of working. They may want to work but not be able to do anything useful.
The tax revenue may be improving with immigration, but it may not matter. As I said long ago, it is not given that immigration gives a net plus for economy of a country.
replied · 309d
Actually it is a well established given that immigrants are good for the economy. They are more likely to start a business, and buy gigs like everyone else.
replied · 309d
the people included in your statistic are the ones who went through the long and expensive process of immigrating legally. Canada has a big beautiful wall between you and Mexico btw.
replied · 309d
That actually included all forms of immigration
Not all refugees are poor. Just displaced by war. Often wars we started, and so should bear some responsibility for.
I suppose you know all about the literature on this? You have read it all and made an overview of it all have you? I was told differently.
replied · 309d
Actually yes, I have. Not to any major extent, but enough to know that immigration is good for the economy. The bring money to the nation.
OK, sorry if I don't believe a word of what you are saying here.
Also, the immigration on a massive scale that is happening in Europe today, it is an experiment that is hard to predict the outcome of. One claim is that they will not integrate well
A few immigrants have to bend to the will of the people living in a country. When they become many, they will set their own demands. Muslims for example have their own culture
The Koran specifically sets muslim men on top, then muslim women, then the whites. Those who follow the koran have no intention of caring for us when we get old
replied · 309d
I think I see where you have blinders on. You see Muslims as some kind of threat. I see Christian's as being a similar threat, but dont think we should kick them out.
Blinders? This just gets dumber and dumber. You seem to be totally unaware (blinders?) of what has happened in Sweden, France, Germany, Britain etc. with Muslim gangs.
replied · 309d
I know lots of people fall for fake, and sensational news. Gangs exist everywhere. Often the biggest problem you hear about are not coming from the recent immigrants.
The recent ones? Who cares if they are recent? Maybe you should watch this to learn something about what real people experience.
replied · 309d
You are an immigrant...
I suppose you refer to "we are all immigrants if we go far enough back". Irrelevant to this thread, and a silly argument. But more important, did you watch the movie?
replied · 309d
You ever hear what is written on the statue of liberty?
If you had a point and was able to make it, I would be willing to listen. But you like pretending to have an argument instead. Just say what you want to say already
replied · 309d
You are just repeating your same nonsense now. I get it, you cant actually refute the loi vs. You just hand wave them away like LightRider would.
the "loi vs."? You seriously need to learn to write down what you think
replied · 309d
I need to read what I type before hitting post more... I think I was going for "refute the points."
replied · 309d
I'm not going to waste my time watching that right now. I am mostly talking about people in North America. Especially the US which was built through immigration.
You were talking in general terms in the topic. Now you have chanced your stance again. I understand that you don't want to watch that, you might learn something about the truth
replied · 309d
Yes, when talking about global freedom of movement I was. Right here we were talking about the ignorance of complaining about immigration while living in North America.
How do you figure that? Where did we state North America?
replied · 309d
It became that when I mentioned that you are an immigrant, and when mentioning what is written on the statue of liberty.
Ah, I chose to ignore that particular unfounded assumption. Apparently you took that as a confirmation and an acceptance of your constant attempts to derail the conversation.
replied · 309d
I am not derailing the conversation. You did that long ago.
Lies are not helpful. Shame on you.
replied · 309d
You derailed the conversation with your comparison. Then refusing to accept the reasons your comparison failed. It is all on you.
I make comparisons to help you understand the failure of your logic. You try to make this into "you are an American huh huh" and similar things. All on YOU
replied · 308d
I never made it about you being American. If your done repeating yourself you might try to make a point.
Easier to claim that others have blinds and go on repeating your own stuff, never really listening to what others say. Do you even understand what having "blinds" involves?
Oh, and of course stuff that does not happen in North America is irrelevant, nothing to learn from other places, cause parallels do not exist in your world
replied · 309d
When talking about globalism or most anything for that matter, it is wrong to think America is the only topic that matters.
So here you have a total logical breakdown again. You were saying you refused to watch a movie that was not about North America. Obviously my comment is about that.
If you don't think America is the only topic that matters, your "reason" for not watching the movie falls away. Maybe you should watch it then.
replied · 309d
I dont have time right now is the reason.
And remember, you want more immigration, that will increase the problem.
Families can also shrink, and it could be argued you should allow some bums into your house to adjust for this. To increase the household income. A bum may have some small allowance
replied · 309d
The funny part of that compairons is that often immigrants are the middle class who could afford to emigrate their nation, and set up in another. So bum doesn't really apply.
They may be bums, they may not. Just because they were rich at home does not mean they will be in their new country. Typically rather young boys come, and they are not workers/bums yet
replied · 309d
Sure, it is fine for people to come live in your home. Since you like this comparison I am sure you would hardly notice these people in your home as you have millions living there.
This is just totally off the scale. You are the one arguing in favor of importing (OK, since you are too dumb to understand that word, "allowing entrance of") immigrants.
replied · 309d
What do you know. Scale makes your comparison break down, just as I was saying.
No, "this is off the scale" as in very stupid statement. You ask others to accept immigrants, and now say it is fine for people to live in my home. The question is about YOUR home.
replied · 309d
Off the scale? As for my home country yes I like immigrants. I am one of the only white home owners on my street. Many other white people are renters in basement suites.
Fascinating story I'm sure. So, do you understand that I am asking you if you have invited bums to live in your living-room?
replied · 309d
I understand that. It is completely irrelevant to this issue of course. It shows just how much you dont understand what is being discussed.
You understand it, but still just talked as if it was about me accepting immigrants in my country or bums in my home. Do you hold your nose with one hand while typing this manure?
replied · 309d
You were he only one talking as if it was about accepting bums in your home. Are you acknowledging how shitty your idea was?
So you are back to repeating your unfounded assertion that my parallel is wrong I see. Shame on you.
replied · 309d
How could you see that as repeating my earlier points? Are you reading something else and then replying to the wrong comment? That I could understand. I was correcting you this time.
Wrong again. My idea that you should allow bums into your living area is directly based on the parallel that you have so much trouble with. It is quite simple from a logical pov
Do you want me to explain it to you? It is trivial, but I can explain it if you can't manage.
replied · 309d
Please do, especially since it is your misunderstanding that leads to his idea.
You think western democracies "must" accept immigrants. They come into our "home" (homeland), and the question then arises, what if they act like bums? Since you do not see the problem
I use the parallel of normal homes, and ask if you accept bums into your living area. Do you get it now?
replied · 309d
No wonder you cant actually see the issue. You are so hung up on people immigrating to western countries.
OK, you are claiming that western countries should allow immigration, and then you claim I can't actually see the issue because I am hung up on people immigrating to western countries
replied · 308d
Repeating your strawman. I've said it enough. You can argue or fail.
replied · 309d
Ah, that is where you are confused. I said all countries, not just western countries. Also it was about coming, and going. Not just western countries accepting immigrants.
Who said "just" western countries? Are western countries not part of "People should be free to go where they wish"?
replied · 308d
You already failed.
You didn't hear me. Why are you now talking about "just" western countries? What relevance does that have?
replied · 308d
I'm not. You are. I mentioned America because you kept wanting to make it about western countries. I was just mentioning it is un-American to be against immigration.
The only real political pressure to accept lots of refugees that I know about to is on western democracies. I cannot talk for other countries, so I talked about what I knew.
I do not try to make it about western countries, but when I make a statement that I am not sure goes for all countries, I naturally limit the list.
replied · 308d
I have seen many refugees express, in interviews on youtube, their gratitude to European countries and citizens for accepting them when their own muslim neighbors wouldn't.
replied · 308d
Western nations are some of the only nations that accept refugees as far as I know. My freedom of movement is more about nations that dont let people leave. North Korea for example.
What you said earlier was something to the effect that it was wrong to be against immigration. It seemed to cover the current resistance in western countries against mass immigration
replied · 308d
America was meant to be a bastion of freedom for people fleeing oppressive nations. Like I said, read what is written on the Statue of Liberty.
replied · 308d
That or in the case of the USA, which always had a policy of taking on refugees, and immigrants from all over. In the US is is almost cliche that immigrants come and start a business.
replied · 308d
Mass immigration isn't even a real thing. War refugees are a different issue though. Africa took in a lot of European refugees during the world wars so it is wrong for Europe to say no
First, I don't accept your assertion that mass immigration is not a real thing. You should show how it is not. Second, the large wave of immigrants that came to Europe recently...
replied · 308d
It isn't enough people to be considered "mass immigration." Also people returning home after fighting has settled down doesn't mean they were not refugees.
Enough people to become majority in a few decades is not mass immigration? You really think this? These are projections for current immigration policy for several western countries.
replied · 308d
The reason anyone else would become the majority is actually due to low birth rates of people from those nations. People dont have enough babies. People need to have at least 3.
If everyone did this, the population explosion would be a bigger and bigger problem. Also, it is not wrong for populations to shrink. We have been through this before. Did you forget?
replied · 308d
I know you showed your ignorance before.
OK. You keep being wrong, which not so bad, but then you are obnoxious about it, which is not fine. I noticed you backed off when I asked you to give me your best argument properly.
replied · 307d
I didn't back off. I'm just not repeating myself. I gave you the argument in the form of your formula, and the actual example laid out. I'm not going to dumb it down anymore.
Instead you spend your time being obnoxious
From what you have said so far it seems you want a even more liberal policy, where these countries would be flooded with immigrants in maybe one decade, until they broke down
replied · 308d
What makes you think everyone would move if they could? Most people like to stay home, unless home is not a good place to live.
Population explosions in Africa are projected to lead to much more people wanting to move than now actually. In general, Africa is not a good place to live compared to the west
Already there are quite some signs of what's to come. Sharia courts for example are in place today in Britain(not above British law, but still operating as if being legal institutions)
Or you could look to South Africa, where white farmers now are being killed for being white, even a politician singing from stage stuff that strongly suggests killing of whites.
replied · 308d
Most of this is actually fake news. The right are very susceptible to propaganda.
Your assertion. The singing is provable.

Used to be directly "kill the boer".
The left is just as susceptible to propaganda.
it was sold to us as refugees, but later it has been shown that the majority was not. Many go back to their home countries on vacation for example. Those who were refugees from long
ago, they mostly stay in the European countries even when wars stop in their home countries. They have not plans to go back. Very different from majority of WWI/II refugees
replied · 308d
Yeah, and if the new country offers better opportunities then they go for that. That is not a bad thing.
Whether it is a bad thing or not is not relevant. The point is it is different. Taking care of a group for a short while is very different from being stuck with them forever
replied · 308d
Those who dont return often left because of persecution. Those who return left because their homes were not safe. They are more likely to return after.
This is irrelevant. Se another reply.
replied · 308d
Nothing wrong with different at all.
So, I will use my parallel again. I let you stay in my house for 1 hour because you are cold. Then I demand that you now let me stay in your house forever. Fair?
Also, you really should read up on demographics for the region. Some estimates give muslim majority in about half a century. If you look at what trouble they already have with distinct
minorities, this is a very serious thing. Again you should watch the movie I linked to. It shows some of the things you can expect with radical Islam in a western country
replied · 309d
Private property is owned by an individual. Nations are public property and governments in a way manage that property. Only a portion dislike immigration.
This is not answering what I said. Also it does not make much sense to me.
replied · 309d
I am listing which inckmpatabilitirs makes the comparison fall apart.
Ah, you are back to repeating the old argument with the big hole in it. Maybe I should have guessed. Feeling impolite yet?
replied · 309d
You have yet to actually respond to the argument. I dont think you can. You just keep hand waving it away.
Wrong again. As all the other stuff you say. I keep explaining in many different ways, you have not said HOW your big words like "private vs public" makes a difference. You just assert
replied · 309d
Homes dont have military battles over neighbouring borders. Disputes over fences go to local governments. In a home a squatter can displace you. Immigrants dont come in those numbers.
replied · 309d
I did explain. Comparing how you manage who comes I to your home to how you control who come and leave a country doesn't work. There are ways to compare nations to homes, not that one.
No, as with this very comment, you just repeat. You do not say WHY it does not work. You just repeat the assertion.
replied · 309d
These are the reasons why comparing nations to homes cant be compared for border control.
So now this is the new thing you are going to repeat over and over?
replied · 309d
You keep asking for the reasons. You ask me to repeat it in a different way so that you might understand.
Oh, give me a break. I have been very clear that I do not want you to repeat. What I ask you to do is fill the gaping hole in your logic, WITHOUT repeating the faulty logic
replied · 309d
You ask for the reasons, and get given the reasons, and then hand wave away the reasons. Explain how those reasons are not good enough for you.
You use words like "scale" and think you have explained something. Scale is not an argument. You must explain how the scale makes a difference.
Actually, answer me this. Do I want you to repeat? Have you understood that I want you not to repeat?